OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

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vputz
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OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby vputz » February 09 2010, 13:18 PM

Minor note:



Changes to the Arduino environment changed the way libraries were compiled. The 1.0 revision of the Orbduino software worked only with Arduino 0016 and had to be precompiled to link. However, changes to the Arduino environment for 0018 meant that even with a few simple changes it would not compile correctly for 328p chips (like the Seeeduino and Duemilanove). Because of that, you had to use 0016 to run the Orbduino software and sketches.



I *think* I have fixed this in the 1.1 release, which you can get at the sourceforge site (http://orbduino.sourceforge.net). I have not updated the docs yet, but rather than putting the library in the arduino directory (ie the old way, in "arduino-0016\hardware\libraries") you now put it in a Libraries directory in your "sketchbook" (probably c:\users\yourname\My Documents\Arduino\Libraries"). It is then compiled each time you compile your sketch.



The dreaded words: "It works for me". No new functionality is added at all; this is just to get the library working with 0018.



Incidentally, my evil plans to make an adapter board for the old Thrustmaster FCS/WCS/rudders (and then the FLCS/TQS/rudders) is limping along; I think I can do it but only by modifying the controllers themselves (MUCH EASIER) than trying to sort out programming their PIC chips, dealing with the old gigantic keyboard encoder, etc). Still, I think it [i]could[/i] work, and it'd be awfully fun to try.



Also something to test: many modern games these days are using XInput, which only works with X-box gamepads or compatibles (ie not the orb in joystick mode). I'm going to try out a few "emulators" I've found that try to emulate an Xbox gamepad with ordinary HID controls. Not sure it'll be worth it, but interesting idea.

jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » March 03 2010, 16:50 PM

I bought two kits and a Seeeeduino v2.12. Just soldered things up this afternoon and uploaded the BasicJoystick. So far so good, but I'm not having much luck getting past this point.



Many times when plugging it in, it comes up as unrecognized device, but a few times I did get it to detect as a Spaceorb/Spaceball. I went into the game controller applet, but no movement from any axis, nor any button presses. I get the same result from both of my OrbShields (I only bought one Seeeduino). I also tried two different Orbs. Two Windows 7 machines, and tried a WinXP once.



http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/seeeduino-v212-fully-assembled-arduino-compatible-p-389.html?cPath=27



For the board setup in the Arduino app, I chose the Arduino Diecimila w ATMega 168. I think that's correct for the board I have. I don't get any errors during the compile or upload.



I didn't read through all the posts yet to see if you have any troubleshooting steps I can follow...



I do like a challenge. :D

jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » March 04 2010, 22:21 PM

Still scratching my head on this one...



Can't find anything wrong with my solder work, but everything points to an issue reading the serial from the orbshield.



The ASCIITable test works, but the OrbShieldSerialTest1 doesn't. I don't get anything from the Orb.



I plugged in a generic USB to serial adapter to verify the Orb does work, and it does.



Your doumentation says resistor 3 is 2.2k, but you also mention red red black, which is 22 ohm, no? I received a red red red with my kit, which is 2.2k ohm. It seems like your pictures show a red red black, though...?



There are switches on the Seeeduino, which I have set to USB, 5V and Auto reset.



I also read in a previous post that the Seeduino has a non-standard pin header that would need modified with the OrbShield? That seems to not be the case with the one I have, but...



Just installed it on my other laptop, showed up spaceorb/spaceball, but no movement or buttons.



Not sure what else to try other than re-soldering one of my boards, but I doubt that is my issue.

jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » March 04 2010, 22:41 PM

Not the best photo quality, but better than nothing...


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jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » March 05 2010, 17:53 PM

I hit one of the boards with the soldering iron again, just to make sure I didn't have any cold joints, but it didn't help my situation. Still no love. Guess I'm going to have to really dig in to troubleshoot it further.



:shock:

jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » March 07 2010, 0:09 AM

Well, I have good news and bad news. The bad outweighs the good...



Good News:

I was able to get my OrbDuino to work. I remembered I had some original SpaceOrb power injectors that plug inline with the serial port to power the Orb... Once I plugged one of those in, I was able to get motion and buttons out of the Game Controllers panel.



Bad News:

The data coming from the Orb is stuttering and hanging like crazy. Totally unusable. For example, in my game controllers panel, all the buttons are 'working' correctly, but sometimes they take a few seconds before they show up, and then a few seconds before going away (after I let off the button). Same goes for axis data, it spits and sputters.



So, I am not sure if my power injector is back-feeding and making the making the max233 sick? Or there is something else at play, here?



More Bad News:

During my testing of my two shields, on one of them I do believe I burned up a diode (at the least) or the max233 (at the worst) Live and learn!



Time for bed, maybe I will try and burn up some more stuff tomorrow. :wink:

vputz
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby vputz » April 05 2010, 12:20 PM

ACK ACK ACK!



Crud, sorry I didn't see this thread until waay late (I haven't followed this in a while and just logged in to check things).



Okay, sucks that you are having this trouble, and no doubt about that! Let's see what can be done. I'm still having luck on this end with multiple devices, multiple computers, and multiple games (plus just got my Thrustmaster FCS/WCS device working), so I have confidence we can get it working eventually.



The resistors are indeed one 2.2k, and two 68 ohm. The red/red/black vs red/red/red thing appears to just be 4-band (digit, digit, multiplier, tolerance) vs 5-band (digit, digit, digit, multiplier, tolerance) identifiers; confused me for a sec as I stared at one of my shields with red/red/black and one with red/red/red.



I had a worry that D1 had a bad solder on the top side, but it looks fine. But none of that USB stuff matters, because the odd thing is that you say you're having trouble with the serial part (not the USB part).



It's REALLY odd that OrbShieldSerialTest1 doesn't work and that you're only getting data once you use the power injector. This is a new problem that I haven't seen before (if these have trouble they're almost always from the USB side, not the serial side). With the OrbShieldSerialTest, you're just getting raw TTL outputs, pumping through the max233, and using the onboard FTDI chip to translate, and that should work fine.



Since I've had my orbshields talking to multiple devices (two different orbs, a 4k, a magellan, and a 5k), I feel like you shouldn't need the power injector, and the fact that you're having to use it makes me wonder if the Arduino itself is getting enough power. The +5v from usb SHOULD be enough, but just to make sure--have you tried it with different USB ports, including powered hubs? This seems very strange.



Also, just to make sure--



1) It's only plugged into one of the two (shield vs arduino) USB ports at a time, right?

2) Doing your OrbShieldSerialTest tests, you were using the Arduino USB port? Did OrbShieldSerialTest ever work at any time?



Worst case, I'll find a way to swap you a "known good working" setup for yours and I'll diagnose from this end. I can't stand the idea of this not working for you.

jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » April 09 2010, 8:00 AM

[quote="vputz"]ACK ACK ACK!



Crud, sorry I didn't see this thread until waay late (I haven't followed this in a while and just logged in to check things).[/quote]

Hey, it's my fault for not keeping up with you in the first place... You have had this project available for many months and I am just now getting around to trying it out. :oops:


[quote]It's REALLY odd that OrbShieldSerialTest1 doesn't work and that you're only getting data once you use the power injector.

Since I've had my orbshields talking to multiple devices (two different orbs, a 4k, a magellan, and a 5k), I feel like you shouldn't need the power injector, and the fact that you're having to use it makes me wonder if the Arduino itself is getting enough power. The +5v from usb SHOULD be enough, but just to make sure--have you tried it with different USB ports, including powered hubs? This seems very strange.[/quote]

I have tried it from multiple PCs, multiple USB ports, etc. I tried several different Orbs, and oddly enough I was able to get some button input (but no ball) without the injector, but only on one of the Orbs. However, even with the injector, regardless the Orb, the response of the input from the buttons and ball is completely wonky in the game controllers panel. Long delays before button presses show / leave, etc, the axis data only updates once every 5 seconds or so... :shock:


[quote]Also, just to make sure--



1) It's only plugged into one of the two (shield vs arduino) USB ports at a time, right?

2) Doing your OrbShieldSerialTest tests, you were using the Arduino USB port? Did OrbShieldSerialTest ever work at any time?[/quote]

1) I've tried it every-which-way, but yes, with only one USB

2) It's been a few weeks since I tried this, and I am not sure if I tried it with an injector, but no, I never had this test pass.



Remember, I have two shields, and they both act the same. I am figuring the Seeduino is the cause, but... I did run a few test projects (blinking LEDs and such) successfully, however.

vputz
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby vputz » April 09 2010, 8:55 AM

[quote]oddly enough I was able to get some button input (but no ball) without the injector, but only on one of the Orbs.[/quote]

Ooo! Ooo! Okay, that rings a bell in my fading memory. There was a point at which I did sort of have the same problem, and I made a homemade power injector to give the serial port some power because the original test design didn't give the serial port any extra power--the buttons worked using the low levels provided but there wasn't enough power to get the ball working.



The injector worked just fine (it was isolated from the Arduino completely), but since it was clunky, I just hooked up the +10v internal power line of the Max233cpp up to the DTR/RTS lines of the serial port. The Max233cpp takes in +5v, but puts +10v out on pin 14.



Soooo... hmm. It's as if your Seeeduino isn't putting enough power out on the +5v pin. That's weird if it's true (I use a Seeeduino 328 and it works fine). But if the Seeeduino isn't putting out enough +5v power, maybe the Max233cpp isn't putting out enough 10v power for the Orb to work; when you hook up the injector, it somehow gives too much power on the back side of the Max chip.



It's not a bad theory... but the problem is, when you're plugged in as a HID device, the +5 from USB is powering it, and the only power used in the circuit is the +5v from the USB cable. So I'm not sure I buy it yet. But I know the Seeduinos were made to deal with 3.3v power as well, so I'm wondering if something is off there.



Do you own a good multimeter? I'd like to check the DC voltage on a few things. With the shield plugged in to the seeduino, not connected to the orb, and the USB cable plugged into either the seeduino or the shield, check the voltage drop between the 5v and GND pins on the shield (should be 5v). Then check the voltage drop between pins 4 and 5 of the 9-pin serial plug (as you look at it, the last two on the top row). That one should be almost 10v (for mine it was 9.7). Last, between pins 7 and 5 (as you look at it, the last one on the right, top row is pin 5, and second from the left, bottom row, is pin 7); should be the same since 5 and 7 are connected.



If you don't have a multimeter, or if those voltages check fine, not sure what to think yet.

jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » April 09 2010, 9:28 AM

[quote]check the voltage drop between the 5v and GND pins on the shield[/quote]
5.07v


[quote]Then check the voltage drop between pins 4 and 5 of the 9-pin serial plug[/quote]
9.87v


[quote]Last, between pins 7 and 5[/quote]
9.87v



No easy fix, here! :D

jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » April 09 2010, 9:37 AM

Ok, for the heck of it, I measured again while the Orb was plugged in, I still had 5v on the shield but I only had about 4.7 volts at the Orb. Not sure if that is a valid test or not...

jaycrowe
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby jaycrowe » April 09 2010, 9:42 AM

The injector I have pumps out about 15v, but is only hot on the male serial plug on the Orb side, the injector's female pin 4 that plugs into the shield has no voltage on it.

vputz
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Re: OrbDuino 1.1 in beta

Postby vputz » April 11 2010, 18:57 PM

Grr arg rage flail grumble...



Hmm, that was the easy idea.


[quote] I still had 5v on the shield but I only had about 4.7 volts at the Orb. Not sure if that is a valid test or not...[/quote]

Hmm. What did you mean there, ie how did you measure at the orb with the orb plugged in? Oh, back of the plug, sure. Hmm. Don't have one handy right now but I'll try that just to check. More and more I suspect something weird with the Seeduino [i]somehow[/i] but I just can't figure it. Man, this is nuts.


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